A Scriptural Refutation of the Trinity Theory
The Trinity is one of mainstream Christianity’s most widely accepted
and revered doctrines. The belief that God is three persons coexisting
in one being or substance, (as the doctrine is often defined), is held
by millions of Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox believers alike.
However this theory which is perpetuated by many in the clergy has more
loopholes than Darwin's theory of evolution. Both theories of the
trinity and evolution are huge hoaxes & embraced by millions
because it is taught & validated by people in authority and accepted
by the masses as truth.This is a logical fallacy called argumentum ad numerum, which asserts that the more people who support or believe a proposition, the more likely it is that that proposition should be true. But just as something true does not become untrue if no one believes in it, something that is not true will not become true if more people believed in it. Truth cannot be attained through the consensus of the majority. The Earth was never flat even if the whole world believed so.
Let’s see if my thousand page Hastings Dictionary of the Bible can help us understand this theory.
Page 1015: TRINITY--The Christian doctrine of God as existing in three Persons and one Substance IS NOT DEMONSTRABLE BY LOGIC or SCRIPTURAL PROOF..." (Emphasis mine).
What an admission & yet we are told by the clergy in authority that it is, "...a NECESSARY HYPOTHESIS, ABOVE REASON but not contrary to it" (Emphasis mine ). Yah, right. That’s like saying square circles are "above reason but not contrary to it."
I feel the need to borrow a line from Steve Martin: "EXCUSSSE MEEE!" If there is not "logic or Scriptural proof" for this strange doctrine, why would anyone believe it? Seriously, this illogical, unscriptural reasoning overwhelms me. This spooky doctrine of the trinity is openly admitted to be non-scriptural and illogical, and yet... and YET, the "trinity" is the very cornerstone of all Christian Doctrine. Unbelievable.!
Did you notice the interjection of another UNscriptural word in this definition? "One substance." "Substance?" God is never referred to as substance in the Scriptures. Not "one substance" or any other "substance." Even the most casual reader of the Scriptures knows that God is not composed of some kind of substance. The Scriptures are plain:
"God is SPIRIT, and those who are worshipping Him must be worshiping in spirit and truth" (John 4:24). Spirit has nothing to do with "substance." In the original Greek, God is called "spirit," not "a spirit."
The existence of a trinity is admittedly not demonstrable by logic or scriptural proof, however, it is called a "necessary hypothesis." Being the inquisitive person that I am, I would inquire as to just why is it a "necessary hypothesis"? Why hypothesize at all, seeing that the Scriptures give us plain, factual, actual information without having to theorize or hypothesize? Let’s get a definition of that word "hypothesis:"
Webster’s Dictionary, hypothesis, A system or theory imagined or assumed to account for what is not understood. An unproved theory. theory, a speculative plan... a formulation of underlying principles of certain observed phenomena which has been verified to some degree... a conjecture; guess.
Who can count the number of man’s theories that have been proven wrong? I will not base my salvation on a theologian’s hypothesis or theory. In my letters on evolution, I call it a hypothesis rather than a theory because the basic principles which supposedly have been "verified to some degree" are continually being scientifically disproved daily. So evolution is at best a hypothesis, not a theory. Likewise, the doctrine of the trinity is at best a hypothesis, for it has not advanced with any Scriptural proofs which could elevate the trinity conjecture to even a theory.
Do you not think it strange that the most spiritual and fundamental doctrine of all Christianity does not even qualify for the status of theory let alone doctrinal truth? Amazing. So the trinity is called a hypothesis--a human invention of speculations, conjectures, guesses, theories, imaginings, and assumptions of something that is not understood. Try taking that to the bank.
We don’t need to rely on the speculations, conjectures, and guesses of theologians to know who or what God is. The Bible is quite simple and direct as to Who God is, and how many Gods there are. But first, bare with me for a few minutes while I present an explanation of the trinity from my Encyclopaedia Britannica. Seriously, don’t quit reading. I know this Britannica article is difficult reading, but I have a special reason for quoting it, so please read on, it’s only one paragraph.
Encyclopaedia Britannica Vol. 2, page 480:
(quote) TRINITY. Fundamental Conception.--This conception of the Trinity is systematically developed by theologians, Greek, Latin and Protestant...The doctrine, then, is primarily religious and if we define God--as in practice religion does--as ‘That which has an absolute claim upon our obedience’ or as ‘the Supreme Object of our reverence,’ the paradoxical element in the doctrine is at least diminished...Is there, then any insuperable difficulty in the notion of a threefold personal embodiment of the one Divine Will and Character, an embodiment so complete in each case that contact with the Divine Person is contact with God:...This ultimate unity of subordination to a single principle is not necessarily identical with the unity which comes from being included within the mind of a single Divine Being. Nor is it obviously identical with the theologian’s ‘numerical unity of substance.’ The Unity, then, of the Object of our supreme reverence and trust is not plainly inconsistent with the existence of personal distinctions (in the modern sense of the word) within the Godhead. It was probably an afterthought to regard the doctrine of the Trinity as providing a more satisfactory conception of ‘personality in God’ than could grow up under a ‘uninpersonal’ theology. Yet Trinitarianism has some points of superiority over a theory which may compel us to conceive God as waking up at the Creation from ‘an eternity of idleness.’ ...It has been similarly argued that in conceiving the ‘not-self with which God contrasts Himself’ as ‘wholly internal to His essence’ while the unity (the Holy Spirit) ‘within which the relation of the two falls is not, as in us, a dark mystery at the back of our life but something which ‘proceeds from both’ we have ‘the best notion that we can frame of Being at its highest.’ Such an argument lead not merely to a plurality but to a trinity of Divine persons, and supports the Western doctrine of the procession of the Spirit from the Father and the Son. (End of Britannica quote).
Wow! What intellectual enlightenment! What an exposition of deep mysteries! What profound theological insight! What a load of CROCK. . .!!!
I am here to tell you that the above theologian’s rendition of the trinity is nothing but a hodgepodge of unintelligible, dubious, theological, intellectual gobbledygook!! Don’t ever feel inferior or put down by the intellectual vanity of writers like this, who haven’t a clue as to what they are talking about.
I will give someone hundreds of dollars if they can explain to me the above phrase, "wholly internal to His essence." Such intellectual phraseology is wholly meaningless. It is gross nonsense. I guarantee you that the author of this Britannica article could never explain that phrase, "wholly internal to His essence" in anything resembling coherent English. Nor could he explain a dozen other similar phrases and statements in his article regarding the trinity. Notice what Paul instructs those who would teach God’s Word:
"For if a trumpet, also, should be giving a dubious sound, who will be preparing for battle? THUS, YOU ALSO, if you should not be giving an INTELLIGIBLE expression through the language, HOW WILL IT BE KNOWN WHAT IS BEING SPOKEN?" Does this verse need any comment? Do any of my readers think for one moment that the theologians responsible for this Britannica article on the trinity follow Paul’s instructions seriously?
God also warns against ...
* "Adding to" or "taking away from" His Word (Rev. 22:18-10)
* We are to rightly "divide" God’s Word (II Tim. 2:15-18)
* We are to "...distinguish the things that DIFFER" (Phil. 1:10)
* We are to have a "PATTERN OF SOUND WORDS" (II Tim. 1:13-14)
* Also, we are to shun the "TRADITIONS OF MEN" (Col. 2:8)
* and the "WISDOM OF THIS WORLD" (I Cor. 1:20 & 3:19)
If the above theologian, and most theologians throughout the world including most clergymen would follow God’s instructions on teaching, there would be millions fewer religious books. And for sure, there would not be millions and millions of words devoted to the futile exercise of trying to prove the one plus one plus one equals ONE trinity of God theory. Is the Word of God only understood by plowing through tens of thousands of pages of theological speculations as with this Britannica article on the trinity?
By the way, did you catch the phrase, "...the PARADOXICAL element in the doctrine [of the trinity] is at least diminished...?" Amazingly, even though the doctrine of the trinity is conceded by theologians themselves to be a "hypothesis" that is "illogical," (to which we can now also add "paradoxical"), and let us not forget the most important of all, "non scriptural," one can nonetheless find himself ridiculed and ostracized for not paying homage to this Christian idol of the heart.
I will give just one example of what I mean. I went to the Internet and searched for "trinity doctrine." The first web site I selected from the first grouping was entitled: "Doctrine of the Trinity" By Dr. Ed DeVries, President of the School of Biblical & Theological Studies. His first paragraph makes the following statements:
"Since the word Trinity IS NOT FOUND ANYWHERE IN THE RECEIVED TEXT or in its offspring (the Authorized Version and other biblical translations derived from the received text), many argue that the doctrine of the Trinity is NOT A BIBLICAL ONE. However, when a person comes to understand the THEORY that is embodied in the terminology they can NOT HELP BUT FIND PROOF OF THE TRINITY THROUGHOUT THE BIBLE. Did you get all that? Notice that in order to "find PROOF of the trinity THROUGHOUT the Bible," all one has to do is come to "understand the THEORY that is EMBODIED in the TERMINOLOGY." !!!!!
What am I missing? Why does my brain not work like that? Am I an intellectual dunce? I’ll tell you the way my brain works. If I wanted to "find proof of the trinity throughout the Bible," I would not first try to come to "understand the theory that is embodied in the terminology." No, I’m sorry, but I would not do that. Here is what I would do if I wanted to "find proof of the trinity throughout the Bible," I would... LOOK IN THE BIBLE!!! That’s what I would do. But, I have already done that, and the trinity ‘ain’t’ there! And that my friends is why we are told to we must "understand the THEORY that is EMBODIED in the TERMINOLOGY."
Please understand and believe me when I say that I am not poking fun directly at such teachers as this. I am not, but I am poking fun at their stupid, stupid teachings! God inspired the proverb that teaches us to:
"Answer a fool according to a fool," and to "...expose those who contradict" (Titus 1:9, Concordant Literal New Testament).
Can anyone imagine our Lord saying something like this in Matt. 11:24,
"...for Thou hidest these things from the wise and intelligent and Thou dost reveal them to those who come to understand the theory that is embodied in the terminology."? No, I think not. Jesus said
"Thou dost reveal them to babes [Gk: minors]."
Does anyone really think that the average person would ever tolerate a bank statement that used terminology like the above? Would anyone in their right mind sign a contract using terminology like the above? Would anyone accept a doctor’s diagnosis using the kind of terminology above? But, as I have often said, "When it comes to religion, anything goes."
The above teacher says that one can come up with a term, then develop a theory based on the term [not on truth, not on law, not on the Scriptures, but based on the "term" you have come up with], and finally, when you come to understand the theory embodied in the term, you will then be able [the author doesn’t say whether it is first necessary to say ‘abracadabra’] TO FIND THE TRUTH OF THAT THEORY THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRETY OF THE BIBLE!? I say that this author raises intellectual foolishness to a level heretofore unknown in the annals of speculative theology.
Listen dear friends; if the "truth" of the trinity could be found not only "throughout the Bible," but ANYWHERE in the Bible, it wouldn’t have to be called a hypothesis or a theory! It is far past time for such ridiculous teachings to be exposed for all to see.
Just a couple more quotes from the above article: "The CONCEPT of the Trinity is the very CONCEPT OF THE EXISTENCE OF GOD, and since God reveals himself to his children, it only makes sense that ALL Christian churches would believe in and DEFEND the DOCTRINE .Isn’t it amazing how quickly theologians can turn a "theory" and a "concept" into a "DOCTRINE" ?
When a man with a Doctor’s degree tries to tell me that the very "existence of God" is a "CONCEPT," maybe it is time to log out and disconnect. And to add insult to injury, this "very CONCEPT of the existence of God" is based on his "concept of the Trinity." Let me assure my readers and Dr. DeVries that: TWO "CONCEPTS" DO NOT MADE A "BIBLICAL TRUTH"!!
Two more:
"Since the word Trinity is used to represent God as a triune being, what is triune? The Hebrew name for God used in all known manuscripts is ELOHIM... The word ELOHIM can be taken to mean plural. Did I miss something? ELOHIM can be read as plural & therefore that is PROOF THAT GOD IS A TRINITY? What kind of scholarship is that?
The Hebrew word Elohim [eloheem] is the plural form of Elowahh [eloah] which answers to "The Deity." The Greek word generally used in the New Testament for God which answers to the Hebrew word Elohim is Theos which means PLACER (God), literally Disposer or Arbiter.
If anyone wants to look up the word Elohim in the hundreds of dictionaries and lexicons, and find just one that defines Elohim as "three in one," I WILL GIVE THAT PERSON HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS. That my friends is just the first few sentences of Dr. DeVries paper on the Trinity. And, "NO," I didn’t read his whole paper, just the first page. I will, however, give you the first caption after his brilliant introduction: "The Trinity Illustrated in Nature"
If we can’t find the trinity in the Scriptures, perchance we can fine it in "nature." Seriously, I hope my readers can see through such inane scholarship. Only religious people, theologians, and self-professed ministers of God can get away with such total nonsense. No author could EVER get away with such childish and unscholarly presentations if he were writing on serious subjects such as medicine, aviation or physics. His contemporaries would laugh him to scorn. Well, now that I think about it, there might be two exceptions to that--those who write books on evolution, and those who write fiction. The above article on the Trinity is assuredly a religious work of fiction!
I could now go through all the Scriptures that support the doctrine of the trinity, however, there is a problem --THERE ARE NO SUCH SCRIPTURES! So let’s do something else. Let’s look at a few Scriptures that Trinitarians claim add credence to their theory. I will take no more than a few pages to try and clarify the Scriptural teaching on who, what, and how many Gods there really are.
First of all we must dispense with I John 5:7 which reads in the King James Version
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
There is a problem with this verse. The words that I typed in bold print are not Scripture. They should NOT be in the Bible. There are many Bibles that do not contain these words. Here are a few:
The Concordant Literal New Testament: "...seeing that three there are that are testifying, the spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are for the one thing."
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures: "For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement."
A New Translation by James Moffatt: "The witnesses are three, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three of them are in accord."
The Emphatic Diaglott: "For there are three which testify; the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are of one."
The Emphatic Diaglott has a footnote:
"This text concerning the heavenly witnesses [as found in some versions] is NOT contained in ANY Greek manuscript which was written earlier than the 15th century. It is not cited by ANY of the Greek ecclesiastical writers; nor by ANY of the early Latin fathers..."
The Holy Bible--New Catholic Version: "For there are three that bear witness [in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth]: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three are one."
The brackets are supplied by the translators. This version also has a footnote:
"According to the evidence of many manuscripts, and the majority of commentators, these verses should read: ‘For there are three that bear witness: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three are one.’ The Holy See reserves to itself the right to pass finally on the origin of the present reading."
The New Testament from 26 Translations: Footnote, page 1183:
"The words between ‘bear record’ (verse 7) and ‘the spirit’ (verse 8) are now recognized as not adequately supported by original manuscripts."
As those words were hand written in a copy of a manuscript as late as the 15th century and do not appear in ANY Greek manuscript, they have no place in the inspired Word of God. I know of only one other verse that is not supported by original manuscripts, and that is Acts 28, verse 30. This added verse in Acts 28 is not, however, as harmful as the added verse in I John 5:7.
"I and the Father, We are ONE" (John 10:30).
Let me be perfectly clear, logical, and Scriptural on this matter:
One plus one plus one DOES NOT equal one!
One God plus one God plus one God DOES NOT equal one God!
One third of a God plus one third of a God plus one third of a God DOES NOT equal one whole God!
The Holy Spirit of God cannot also be that same God! ANYTHING that is either "from" or "of" something ELSE cannot also "BE" that something else no matter what or who it is!
A "Father" and a "Son" CANNOT ALSO BE THE SAME PERSON!
Countless things can be said to "be ONE" in numerous forms of close relationship. In this close relationship of purpose, will, harmony, etc., our Lord said:
"I and the Father, We are ONE" (John 10:30).
Will all my readers please note that Yeshua DID NOT say "I and the Father, We are one GOD," did He? No, He did not!
Do the Scriptures, however, tell us that there is only ONE GOD? Yes, they do.
Do the Scriptures, tell us WHO that ONE God is? Yes, they do.
Do the Scriptures tell us what the relationship of Yeshua the Messiah is with that ONE God? Yes, they do.
In fact, all of these things are answered in ONE Scripture.
I will now give you the ONLY Scripture you will EVER need for understanding Who Yeshua the Messiah and God the Father are and how many Gods there are, and Who composes that ONE God. Here it is:
"For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, nevertheless for US there is ONE God, the FATHER, out of Whom ALL IS, and we for Him, and ONE LORD, Yeshua the Messiah, through Whom all is, and we through Him" (I Cor. 8:5-6).
And the next verse says "But NOT IN ALL is there this knowledge" (Ver. 7). I can say "Amen" to that. Practically "not in all" Christendom is there this knowledge.
If you have not yet THANKED GOD for making these things so clear, so meaningful, and so simple, DO IT NOW! The above verse really doesn’t need commentary, but I want to comment anyway.
How many Gods are there? Answer: "ONE God."
Of Whom is this ONE God composed? Answer: "the FATHER." NOT, the Father, AND the Son, AND the holy ghost! Just, "the Father!" ONLY, "the Father!!" "ONE God, the FATHER!"
Is this too hard for anyone? Is not God’s definition far easier and better than the theologians’ "one, plus ONE, plus ONE, equals ONE" nonsense?
Is Yeshua the Messiah an equal part of this "ONE God?" NO, He is not. Let God’s Word tell us. We don’t need to speculate and theorize. Here is Who and What Yeshua is, He is the "one LORD." This is not hard. It is only hard for those who wrestle and twist Scripture to their own destruction (II Peter 3:16). John 8:5-6 makes the following very clear:
This Scripture tells us that "ALL IS OUT OF" GOD (the FATHER).
And this Scripture tells us that "ALL IS THROUGH" Jesus Christ.
God the Father is the first cause of all and ALL IS OUT GOD, even Jesus Christ is "OUT of God."
"...I [Yeshua] came OUT from God. I CAME OUT FROM the FATHER..." (John 16:27-28).
Now if Yeshua came out from the trinity, why doesn’t the Scripture say so? He didn’t come out of the trinity and He didn’t come out of the holy spirit, but HE DID COME, "...OUT FROM THE FATHER!"
And after Yeshua came OUT from the Father, ALL ELSE came THROUGH Yeshua the Messiah:
"Who [Yeshua] is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature, for in Him is ALL CREATED, that in the heavens and that on the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created THROUGH Him and FOR Him, and He is BEFORE all, and all has its cohesion in Him" (Col. 14-17).
Nowhere do we read that God came out from Yeshua! No, Yeshua the Messiah came OUT FROM THE FATHER and all else was created THROUGH Yeshuat. There is no trinity here!
Yeshua is not the SUPREME DEITY. Yeshua is not the originator of all -- He is "the Lord." He is the Son of God. He is the IMAGE of the invisible God. He is the Mediator,
For there is ONE God, and ONE Mediator OF God and mankind, a MAN Yeshua the Messiah..." (I Tim. 2:5).
As I said before, one cannot be both "of" something or someone and at the same time "be" that something or someone. There is certainly no trilateral, triune, trinity of God here!
Yeshua the Messiah said, "...I am going to the Father, for the Father is GREATER than I" (John 14:28). Where do we read that Christ is equal with the Father? There is no trinity in this verse!
And again:
"Now, whenever ALL may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself [Yeshua the Messiah] also SHALL BE SUBJECTED TO HIM [God the Father] Who subjects all to Him, that GOD may be All in all."Where do we read that someday God the Father will be SUBJECT to Christ? There is no trinity in these Biblical truths.
And again:
"Now I want you to be aware that the Head of every man is Yeshua, yet the head of the woman is the man, yet the Head of Yeshua the Messiah IS GOD" (I Cor. 11:3).
Where do we read in Scripture that Messiah is the Head of God?
There is another profound statement in the Scriptures that PROVES CONCLUSIVELY that Yeshua the Messiah is not part of a trinity, but is now and always will be, under the Headship of His Father. Here it is:
"...that the GOD OF OUR LORD Yeshua the Messiah, the FATHER..." (Eph. 1:17).
There it is--Yeshua the Messiah HAS A "GOD!" Paul wrote this and all of the above Scriptures AFTER Yeshua was resurrected and restored to His previous GLORIES in God. And in His glorified state,Yeshua is STILL subjected to HIS GOD! Who wants to be the first blasphemer to even suggest that God the Father "has a God?"!!! But Yeshua, DOES have a God! Notice the following:
Eph. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Yeshua the Messiah t"
Col. 1:3: "We are thanking the God and Father OF our Lord Yeshua the Messiah "
I Pet. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Yeshua the Messiaht"
And remember these statements concerning Yeshua the Messiah "having a God" were made long after His resurrection and restoration back to His former glories. Today, our Lord STILL HAS A GOD! And need I repeat the fact that the God and Father of Yeshua the Messiah DOES NOT HAVE A GOD?! And someone out there still thinks God is a equilateral trinity?
There are many more Scriptures that show the distinction between God the Father’s office of supreme deity of the universe and that of His Son and Image, Yeshua the Messiah and Mediator.
The "Holy Spirit"
Does no one think it strange that in all these pages of Scriptures the "holy spirit" was not even mentioned so much as once? If the holy spirit is an EQUAL to the Father and Son, it sure seems it is being shortchanged in all these profound Scriptures. Could it be that just as Yeshua is the Son "of" God and not God Himself, that the holy spirit is the spirit "of" God and not God Himself? Yes, that is what the Scriptures clearly teach. We have the Son "of" God and the spirit "of" God and yet God is "of" NO ONE!! Is there anyone who wishes to challenge this? God Almighty is out of NO ONE! God Almighty is of NO ONE!
Let it be known: NONE of these Scriptures take away from the glories of God’s grandest achievements in Yeshua our Messiah and Savior. His name is now and will forever be ABOVE ALL ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE! AMEN! Here is the main Scripture used by Trinitarians to try and make people believe that God is a trinity:
"Going, then, disciple all nations baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit [Authorized, ghost]..." (Mat. 28:19).
And how does this verse prove that God is a three-in-one trinity? I DON’T KNOW! It certainly doesn’t say that these three form ONE GOD. Or that these three are coequal with one another. They are just all three mentioned in one verse, that’s all.
The mention of the "holy spirit" in this verse no more proves that the holy spirit is the third God part of a trinity than the mention of "the Comforter" in John 15:26 proves that it is the fourth God part of a quartet, or the mention of "the spirit of Truth" in this same verse in the fifth God part of a quintet! But why stop here. If we look for phrases such as "the holy spirit" being representative of some kind of personal being of a multi-person Godhead, we can find a plethora of "gods."
Let’s count them
1. God
2. The Father
3. The Highest
4. The Holy Ghost
5. The Holy Spirit
6. The Spirit of God
7. The Spirit of Christ
8. Jesus Christ
9. The Son of God. We are now up to a TRIPLE trinity.
10. The Mediator
11. The Mind of God
12. The Spirit of truth. Now we have a quartet of trinities
13. The Word was God
And to these we could add "The SEVEN Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5), etc., etc. We are now up to twenty potential coequal candidates for this so-called triune godhead. Clearly, God is NOT a trinity or a collection of trinities. By the way, "Godhead" is not a proper translation of any Greek word, it should be translated "Deity" or "Divinity."
No matter how many different spirits there are, one thing is certain: ALL SPIRITS ARE IN SUBJECTION TO THE FATHER--NONE ARE EQUAL TO OR WITH THE FATHER, because we have Scriptural proof that God is superior to all spirits, seeing that:
"Yet shall we not much rather be subjected to the FATHER OF SPIRITS..." (Heb. 12:9)
To him who has an ear to hear; let him hear! No, there are NOT twenty members of a coequal godhead. Not ten or even five. There are not even three or two.
"...there is ONE God, the FATHER..." (I Cor. 8:6)
Bare with me a moment now. Do we all agree that this verse is from the Scriptures and that it is a TRUE statement? Good! Because if this statement is true, then to say that "God is a trinity composed of the Father, the Son and the holy ghost [spirit] HAS GOT TO BE A FALSE STATEMENT, because the two statements absolutely CONTRADICT.
Back to the Trinitarians' favorite proof text to support their theory.
"Going, then, disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit..." (Mat. 28:;29). Does anything in this verse preclude the "holy spirit" from being "the holy spirit OF God?" Of course not. God the Father is "holy" [Greek, hagios] (John 17:11), and God the Father is "spirit" [Greek, pneuma] (John 4:24). No one is denying the close relationship between the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit. But close relationship does not prove or even necessarily suggest SAMENESS.
The trinity is a manmade theory that is detrimental and opposed to the Biblical teaching that God has a growing family. Yes, God is a growing family.
"Consequently, then, no longer are you strangers and sojourners, but are fellow-citizens of the saints and belong to God’s FAMILY..." (Eph. 2:19). The trinity is like a closed triangle where no one gets in. That is what Satan would like people to believe. But, dear reader, God desires a very large family wherein you and I are family members! When were you taught such a marvelous truth in Sunday school? Ultimately, everyone in the entirety of the Universe is going to be one, holy, united, happy, glorious, giant, FAMILY OF GOD!!!
"...that God may be ALL IN ALL (I Cor. 15:28).
And all the while Christendom is out there spending hundreds of millions of dollars telling the world that a few are going to play harps in heaven while many of their friends, neighbors, and relatives, and indeed the rest of the universe will burn in hell forever. This they proclaim is the good news GOSPEL of God, while Satan chortles in his joy!
Now we are getting down to what the Bible really teaches. God has a family. God is "The FATHER" of His family. Yeshua the Messiah t is "the Firstborn SON" of God’s Family. "Who rescues us out of the jurisdiction of Darkness, and transports us into the kingdom of the SON OF HIS LOVE, in Whom we are having the deliverance, the pardon of sins, Who is the Image of the invisible God, FIRSTBORN of every creature..." (Col. 1:13-15).
Hey! I’m a "creature." You’re a "creature." This verse is talking about US!We are now, already, in spirit, a part of God’s family!
"For you did not get slavery’s spirit to fear again, but you got the SPIRIT OF SONSHIP in which we are crying, ‘Abba, FATHER!’ The spirit itself is testifying together with our spirit that WE ARE CHILDREN OF GOD." (Rom. 8:14-16). Yes, God wants sons (and daughters, of course).
"Blessed be the God and FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who blesses us with every spiritual blessing among the celestials, in Christ, according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy, and flawless in His sight, in love designating us beforehand for the place of a SON..." (Eph. 1:3-5). If God is a closed triune Godhead (as theologians call it), then there would be NO PLACE FOR SONS INSIDE OF THAT CLOSED TRINITY! God could never be, "...ALL IN ALL."
Everything that God the Father gave to His son Yeshua the Messiah, He is going to GIVE TO US! And this includes being His CHILDREN.
"Now when the full time came, God delegates His Son, come of a woman, come under law, that He should be reclaiming those under law that WE may be getting the place of a SON. Now, seeing that you are SONS, God delegates the spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, ‘Abba! FATHER!’ So that you are no longer a slave, but a SON. Now if a SON, an enjoyer also of an allotment from God, through Christ" (Gal. 4:6-7).
God almighty will be the same "Abba FATHER" to us, as He was also "Abba FATHER" to our Lord Yeshua (Mark 14:36). Did you catch that it is the "...spirit OF His [the Father’s] Son..." That comes into our hearts. It is NOT the "the holy spirit which is supposedly the third person of the trinity" that comes into our hearts, but Christ’s spirit. The spirit of God and the spirit of Christ are the same spirit and it is THEIR spirit not a third person (God) of a trinity!
So God is the Father of Yeshua His Son. But who or what then is the "holy ghost" [spirit]? The Bible speaks much about Christ’s relationship with the Father. It says NOTHING of a relationship with "the holy spirit." And yet, Jesus was CONCEIVED by the HOLY SPIRIT!
"...the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is CONCEIVED IN HER IS OF THE HOLY GHOST" (Mat. 1:20).
Here is a Scripture so simple that any child above the age of seven can surely understand. And with its understanding comes the total demise of the trinity theory. We learned in Eph. 1:17, that God is both the GOD AND FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ,
"...the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, THE FATHER of glory..."
Okay, here it is--you’re going to love this: If the holy ghost is actually and literally "God" as Trinitarians maintain, and Jesus was "CONCEIVED" by the Holy Ghost, then Jesus would have to be "The Son of the Holy Ghost" and not the Son of God the Father! It is not physiologically or Scriptural possible to be "conceived" by one person and then when born, be the son of another person! Whoever causes a women to conceive is also the FATHER of the child conceived, NOT ANOTHER AND DIFFERENT PERSON! Jesus was conceived by the holy spirit "OF" God. It was the spirit OF the Father, not some other spirit or ghost that caused Mary to conceive. Therefore "God," not the "spirit of God," is the FATHER of Jesus. So much for the trinity theory.
Next we will see that the second witness to this same event in Luke 1:35 comes right out and says Who the Father of Jesus is:
"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost [spirit] shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son OF GOD."
Not the son of the holy ghost (capital letters were not used in the Greek text and so "holy spirit" has no reason to be capitalized here). "...the HIGHEST..." also refers to God the Father, not the holy spirit.
Let me assure my readers that God did not have intercourse with Mary to cause her to conceive. God, Who is called "the power of the Highest" caused Mary to conceive by and through His own "holy spirit." Hence Jesus is the Son of the Highest, the Son of the Father, the Son of God, but NOT the son of the holy spirit! Back up to verses 30-32
"And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God [not favour with the holy spirit]. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the SON OF THE HIGHEST [not the son of the holy spirit] : and the Lord God [not the holy spirit] shall give unto him the throne of his father David."
Ironic for Trinitarians, the Scriptures never speak of Jesus having a relationship with the holy spirit, and yet, according to their own theory, the holy spirit is the father of Jesus. Unbelievable!
In Mat. 12:28 Jesus said He cast out demons "by the SPIRIT of God." Yet the Pharisees claimed He did it by the power of Beezeboul. Jesus told the Pharisees that accusing Him of casting out demons "by the power of Beezeboul," when He did it by the "spirit of God," is blasphemy against the "holy spirit" (Ver. 32).
Here is clear and simple proof that the "spirit of God" and the "holy spirit" are ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT--not a third person of a so-called trinity!
Again let me state: Anything that is "of" or "from" someone else cannot BE that same someone else! Nothing can be "of" someone and yet, at the same time, "be" that same someone! This is axiomatic.
The holy spirit is something that God the Father possesses--it is not a separate, third god or deity of some fabled trinity. The spirit "of" God is "God’s" spirit. And notice that God offers His spirit as a gift to those who ask:
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)
The holy spirit is not an entity of its own, but is rather a possession of God which He gives to us.
And notice that even the King James Version in this verse uses the word Spirit instead of Ghost as they normally do in translating the same identical Greek word pneuma.
We read in the latter chapters of John’s gospel just how intimate and loving and close Jesus is with His Father and His Father with Him. This is emphasized over and over again dozens of times in the Scriptures. However, there is NO SUCH INTIMACY mentioned between the holy ghost [spirit] and the Father or with Jesus Christ. The reason is clear. The holy spirit of God is not a deity or god with a personal relationship with the Father or Christ, but is rather THEIR spirit. We will show from Scripture that both the Father and His Son have, and posses "holy spirit," and that They BOTH impart that same spirit to US! And that is how they BOTH dwell with us and in us and make their abode with us (John 14:23).
The holy spirit is not the sister of Jesus, nor the brother, nor the mother and certainly not a SECOND Father! It is futile to try and make the holy spirit into a "god" distinct from Jesus Christ and God the Father. Again, Jesus said that He and His Father are ONE. He never said that He and the holy spirit are ONE. It is rather THROUGH the holy spirit that the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son, and we are in Christ and Christ is in us and the Father is in us!
Next let’s consider who or what is the "comforter" mentioned only in John’s gospel account.
"And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you [it is not "from" the holy spirit, but "from" the Father] another Comforter [this word does not require a capital letter], that he [it] may abide with you for ever [Greek: for the aion--eon or age]. Even the Spirit of truth..." (John 14:16-17 KJV).
Remember that Jesus said "I am the truth." How then can this "comforter" be coming from both His Father and Himself? Is this possible? Once we understand just what this "spirit of truth," "spirit of God," "holy spirit," "holy ghost," "comforter" really is, we will see that it certainly DOES come from both the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.
It is evident when checking various translations that the translators did not have a clear idea as to just what they should call this "comforter." In the Greek, the word is [parakletos BESIDE-CALLER].
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It can be "consoler" or "Entreater" in I John 2:1.
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The Moffatt translation has "...to give you another Helper..."
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The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has "...another Advocate..."
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The Revised Standard Version has "...Counselor..."
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The Monsignor Knox version has "...another to befriend you..."
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The Phillips Translation has "...some one else to stand by you..."
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And the Amplified New Testament has "...another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener and Standby)..."
It should be noted that not all translators capitalize this Greek word parakletos in their translations, nor do all translators use the pronoun "he" but rather "it."
From The Concordant Literal New Testament:
John 14:16-18, "And I shall be asking the Father, and He will be giving you another consoler, that it, indeed, may be with you for the eon--the spirit of truth, which the world can not get, for it is not beholding it, neither is knowing it. Yet you know it, for it is remaining with you and will be in you. I will not leave you bereaved; I am COMING TO YOU."
In this section of Scripture, Philip, Thomas, Peter, and Judas (and possibly all the Apostles) did not quite understand what Christ was teaching them. They especially didn’t understand how that Jesus was going away and that were He was going they could not come, but that it was necessary for Him to go away to His Father, or He could not send them the comforter or consoler.
Jesus was assuredly "the spirit of truth" of which He spoke. And as such Jesus was with the disciples. But now He is telling them that when He leaves them to be with the Father, He will come back to them, only this time He will not just be with them, but He will be IN them! The spirit of truth was with the apostles in the person of Jesus Christ, but He told them that after He left to be with the Father that this same spirit of truth would be in them. This is all done by "spirit," the spirit of God.
Notice verse 26 of John 14:
"Now the consoler, THE HOLY SPIRIT, which the Father will be sending in MY NAME..."
And see how this is done, verse 23:
"If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and WE shall be coming to him and making OUR abode with him.
This is done through the consoler, the comforter, the spirit of truth, THE HOLY SPIRIT of God! Jesus said He would not leave them "comfortless" (Ver. 18), so for sure Jesus must return to His followers to "comfort" them. This He did and still does by the "spirit of God" which God gave to His son Jesus and which the Father then turns around and gives FROM that very same spirit in Christ TO US! The following Scripture make this plain:
"All things that the Father hath are mine [all things include the holy spirit]: therefore said I, that He shall take of Mine [that is, of the spirit that His Father gave to Him], and shall shew it UNTO YOU" (John 16:15).
Here is one more proof that the "holy ghost [spirit]" and the "spirit of God" are one and the same. Here is what Jesus told His disciples would happen when they would be brought before magistrates and powers:
"And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say" (Luke 12:11-12).
In the very same account of this portion of Christ’s teaching in Matthew’s gospel, we read this:
"But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
There can be no doubt from these two accounts that the "Holy Ghost [spirit]" and the "Spirit of your Father" are one and the same spirit--THE SPIRIT OF GOD! NOT a third person of some fabled trinity!
Now let us recap what we have learned and bring it all together using the Concordant Literal New Testament:
Who and What is GOD?
"There is ONE GOD, the FATHER, out of Whom ALL is..." (I Cor. 8:6).
"For there is ONE God" (I Tim. 2:5).
"You are my witnesses whether there is any god, any Power, any besides ME" (Isa. 44:8 Moffatt Translation).
"The ONE Who is operating ALL in accord with the counsel of HIS will..." (Eph. 1:11).
"Out of Him and through Him and for Him is ALL: to HIM be the glory for the eons! Amen!" (Rom. 11:36).
"...your heavenly Father IS PERFECT" (Mat. 5:48)
"God IS LOVE" (I John 4:8).
"God IS SPIRIT" (John 4:24).
"...the INVISIBLE GOD" (II Cor. 4:4).
"Now it is eonian life that they may know Thee, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Him Whom Thou dost commission, Jesus Christ" (John 17:3).
Jesus called His Father "...the ONLY TRUE GOD" (Jn. 17:3).
"God is NOT A MAN..." (I Sam. 15:29).
Who and What is Jesus Christ?
Jesus Christ IS A MAN! "For there is ONE GOD, and ONE MEDIATOR of God and mankind, A MAN, Christ Jesus..." (I Tim. 2:5).
"Thou art the Christ, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD" (Mat. 16:16).
"Christ, Who is the IMAGE of the invisible God" (II Cor. 4:4).
"The Lord Jesus Christ, the SON OF THE FATHER" (II Jn 3).
"The BEGINNING of the creation of God" (Rev. 3:14 JKV)
"God’s CREATIVE ORIGINAL" (Rev. 3:14 CLNT).
"If God were your Father, you would have loved Me. For OUT OF GOD I CAME FORTH and am arriving" (John 8:42).
"Nor Jesus said to him, Why are you terming Me good? No one is good except ONE, GOD" (Mark 10:18).
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was toward God, and God was the Word" (John 1:1). (This is the proper order of the Greek words. Jesus is the Logos or Spokesman of God).
I believe most can see from the above Scriptures that there are numerous and fundamental differences between the Father and Jesus the Son. However, there are still reasons to ask whether or not Jesus Christ, the Son of God the Father, is not also "God.?" Is Christ for example, not worthy our worship? Dare we worship any but "God?" And if Christ is indeed "God," when isn’t He of the very same status, rank, authority, etc., as His Father? Good questions. Let’s take them one at a time.
Is Christ God? YES HE IS!
"Yet to the Son [this is GOD speaking]: ‘Thy throne, O GOD, is for the eon of the eon..." (Heb. 1:8).
And also:
Who [Jesus], being inherently in the form of God, deems it not pillaging [taking by force or plundering] to be EQUAL WITH GOD" (Phil. 2:6).
Is Christ worthy of worship? YES HE IS!
"And lo! A leper, coming to Him, WORSHIPED Him, saying..." (Mat. 8:2),
"lo! One approaching Him [Jesus], a chief, WORSHIPED Him..." (Mat. 9:18),
"Now those in the ship WORSHIP Him, saying, ‘truly, God’s Son art Thou!’"
"Yet she, coming, WORSHIPS Him, saying, ‘Lord, help me!’" (Mat. 15:25).
So Christ is called "God," and did not consider it pillaging to be "equal" with God, and was often "worshiped." So surely, even if Christ is not the third person of a trinity, He must at least be the second person of a duet! SURELY, HE IS NOT! Let me explain.
Jesus IS God! True, but this fact does NOT make Him the FATHER! Let us always read and believe the Scriptures. The English word "God" is translated from the Greek word Theos which means PLACER or DISPOSER. ANYONE to whom the Father gives such an office of "placer or disposer" is a God! Notice what God says in Psalm 82:6,
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."
Jesus explains this verse for us:
"Jesus answered them, ‘Is it not written in your law, that ‘I say you are gods’? If He said those were gods, to whom the word of God came [and the scripture can not be annulled], are you saying to Him Whom the Father hallows and dispatches into the world that You are blaspheming,’ seeing that I said, ‘Son of God am I’? If I am not doing My Father’s works, do not believe Me. Yet if I am doing them, and if ever you are not believing Me, be believing the works, that you may be knowing and believing that in Me is the Father, and I am in the Father."
Okay then, let’s notice a few very important points. Jesus never came out and said "I AM GOD!" He always called Himself, "The Son OF God." Recall that Jesus did not consider it "pillaging" to be equal with God. That is, he didn’t need to steal, or take His office by FORCE, because His God, the Father, GAVE ALL THINGS TO HIM FREELY! Though Jesus is certainly "God," we must always remember that everything that made Him "God" (like His Father), WAS GIVEN TO HIM! Is there anyone who would suggest that someone GAVE God the Father all that He possesses? I think not. There is clearly a distinction--we have a "Father" and a "Son," NOT two equal Gods of a so-called trinity.
Notice that Jesus always acknowledges His subjection to His Father:
"Jesus, being aware that the Father has GIVEN ALL INTO HIS HANDS, and that He came out FROM God and is going away TO God" (John 13:3).
"Now the Father, remaining in Me, He IS DOING HIS WORKS" (John 14:10).
"And the word which you are hearing is NOT Mine, but the Father’s Who sends me" (John 14:24).
"I am going to the Father, for THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I" (John 14:28).
"Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, THE SON HIMSELF ALSO SHALL BE SUBJECTED TO HIM Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all" (I Cor. 15:28).
These Scriptures are clear, and there are many more like this. The Father is GREATER than His Son, and the Son will ALWAYS be subjected to His Father. They are NOT two, coequal Gods of a fabled trinity. They are "Father and Son." They are "FAMILY!" And the "spirit of God" is just that, the spirit "OF" God, not "the spirit God." And Jesus Christ has this SAME SPIRIT in Himself also. And it is THIS VERY SPIRIT that God the Father gives to US through His Son, Jesus Christ. It is not difficult to understand if one will simply believe the Scriptures.
Again, I want everyone to take note that when Christ speaks of the close relationship between Himself and His Father, He NEVER includes the "holy spirit" into that relationship! This is surely not an oversight on Christ’s part.
Our Lord gives us a beautiful metaphor in these same chapters of John. Jesus says:
"I am the true Grapevine, and My father is the Farmer... I am the Grapevine. You are the branches" (John 15:1 & 5).
Notice that the holy spirit is NO PART of this analogy. Now seriously, if the holy spirit were a third personality or god of the trinity, then why does it have NO PART in so many dozens and dozens of Scriptures like this one? Surely if there is a trinity, the holy spirit could represent maybe the soil, or the sunshine, or the rain, or at least be some part of this analogy with the Father, the Son, and the Saints, don’t you think? But no! The holy spirit is not mentioned. That is because it is not necessary for it to be mentioned, and also because it is not a third god of a trinity.
WHO, OR WHAT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT?
Jesus told His disciples in John 16:7:
"It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will NOT COME UNTO YOU; but if I depart, I will SEND HIM unto you."
Is this "comforter" the third God of a trinity? Let us see Who this Comforter really is! Didn’t you ever wonder why this Comforter could not come until Christ departed? The comforter does not come until Christ departs to the Father, because the comforter IS THE SON returning in the form of "spirit," "holy spirit." Jesus is saying to him,
"I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one is coming to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).
"Now, whenever the consoler [comforter] which I shall be sending you from the Father..."
Notice that Christ sends the comforter from the Father and what Jesus instructs. And notice that it does not involve a third person of a fabled trinity:
"Yet whenever that may be coming--the spirit of truth [Jesus said that HE is the Truth]--it will be guiding you in to all the truth, for it will NOT be speaking from itself [it is NOT A GOD], but whatsoever it should be hearing [from Whom sent it] will it be speaking, and of what is coming will it be informing you. That will be glorifying ME, seeing that of MINE will it be getting, and informing you. All, whatever the Father has, is MINE. THEREFORE I said to you that OF MINE IS IT GETTING, AND WILL BE INFORMING YOU." (John 16:13-15).
This is not hard to understand. The spirit of Truth is Christ. The comforter is Christ. The spirit will be speaking TO the disciples THROUGH Christ’s spirit which is His because the Father gave this spirit TO HIM! There’s no trinity here.
Jesus said:
"I will NOT leave you bereaved [comfortless], I am coming to you [in the form of the comforter and spirit of truth]" (Jn 14:18).
Now notice how clear Jesus makes this. Who or What is this spirit, holy spirit, holy ghost, spirit of truth, comforter? Is it really the third person of a triune God? Let Jesus Himself answer:
"IN THAT DAY [the day when the comforter comes] you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I IN YOU" (Jn 14:20).
"Now the consoler [comforter], THE HOLY SPIRIT, which the Father will be sending IN MY NAME, that will be teaching you all, and reminding you of all that I said to you" (Jn 14:26).
"I am going, and I AM COMING TO YOU" (Jn. 14:27).
JESUS CHRIST BY MEANS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD WHICH HIS FATHER GAVE TO HIM IS THE COMFORTER. THE GREEK PROVES THAT CHRIST IS THE COMFORTER!
In the Greek, the "comforter" or consoler is translated from parakleetos. Now, is there any Scriptural proof that Jesus Christ is called "parakleetos?" Yes there is. In I John 2:1 we read:
"And if anyone should be sinning, we have an Entreater with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Just."
In the King James it says we have an "advocate" [with a small "a"]. King James ALWAYS capitalizes the Greek word "parakleetos," so why don’t they capitalize it here? You see, "advocate" or a better translation "Entreater" is translated from the GREEK WORD "parakleetos!"
HERE IS PROOF POSITIVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE"PARAKLEETOS!"
Isn’t is just amazing what we can learn when we just read and truth of God’s Word instead of the strange and unscriptural teaching of theologians?
No, God is not a trinity. Yes, God is a family. We can be members (Sons) of His Family, Brothers with Christ. What a marvelous plan God is bring about. Here then is the Gospel to all nations and all peoples everywhere:
"For since, in fact, through a man [Adam] came death, through a Man [Jesus Christ], also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, THUS ALSO, in Christ, shall ALL be vivified [given immortal life]. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ’s in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to HIS GOD AND FATHER, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power... The last enemy is being abolished: DEATH... then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be ALL IN ALL" (I Cor. 15:21-28).
[End]
[Webmasters Note: Below are email responses on this subject]
Ray answers: If Jesus Christ is the one and only Supreme Deity and Almighty God of the universe, when He died on the cross, WHO resurrected Him back to life?
Also consider, if the Father, the Holy Spirit of God, and Jesus Christ are One inseparable God, then if either of the three were to die, ALL WOULD DIE.
So if God is a trinity and "The TRINITY" itself DIED, then there would be no power to resurrect anyone and we would be without any God today, in fact, we would be without ourselves or anything else in the universe. There would be one big black void! Are you following me?
If "God" (your trinity), DIED, then "God" died--ALL OF GOD DIED, for you say "God" is a "trinity." Maybe you would care to explain that to me? Remember now, the trinity can NOT be divided up into three separate parts, for according to you it IS the three parts that make the whole God. Did only one-third of God die for the sin of the world? Give it your best shot.
Ray
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Ray answers: Why is this important to you? Do they have proof of the trinity that you are unable to present yourself? I have had people send me literally hundreds of scripture verses that contain the word "spirit" or "spirit of God" and then stated that all these hundreds of verses prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a trinity. I have people sending me attachments containing hundreds of pages of material on a number of subjects that I cover, with the claim that if I would read this material then surely I would see that I am wrong in my beliefs.
I have never in my life witnessed a Biblical debate in which either side was the least bit interested in, or gave any real attention to what the opposing side said.
Here is an example of a typical debate: I give a Scripture verse to make a particular point concerning a subject. The person with an opposing view then cites ANOTHER DIFFERENT SCRIPTURE WHICH HE BELIEVES CONTRADICTS THE VERSE THAT I PRESENTED! As though the Scriptures contradict and the one with the most CONTRADICTING scriptures wins the debate! Unbelievable foolishness and stupidity!
For years I have asked some fairly simple and straight-forward questions regarding the trinity, to which no one has ever answered. No they just go to other things and other scriptures, but NEVER answer the contradiction to a trinity theory that I present.
I really don't have the time for this, but let me just present a few examples once more to prove my point.
The trinity theory supposes that The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, together, as one unity, not as individual units, but together are ONE, constitute the ONE GOD.
Now then:
Why in the dozens of Scriptural discussions regarding the unity of Jesus with God His Father is the Holy Spirit of God NOT included?
If all three are EQUALLY CO-EQUAL, why does Jesus Christ HAVE A GOD, yet the Father is NEVER SAID TO HAVE a God?
Jesus said He didn't need to "rob" God to be equal with Him. Why? Because the Father freely GAVE Jesus all that He had and possessed. Jesus had ALL power and ALL authority and ALL judgment in heaven and earth. Were these things the natural possessions of Jesus seeing that He is supposedly a third equal part of this trinity? No, my friend. God GAVE Jesus all these things -- they had an origin and the origin is GOD THE FATHER.
Jesus Christ will be SUBJECT to God His Father for all eternity (See I Cor. 15:24-28). Where are we told that the Father will be subject to Jesus Christ for all eternity? And, of course, the Holy Spirit is not even mentioned in this discussion in I Cor. 15.
If the trinity is true, how is it that Jesus Christ was CONCEIVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, but is the SON OF GOD THE FATHER???
These are a few reasons why I don't believe in the trinity theory. I believe they are good, well-founded, sane, Scriptural reasons. Since NO ONE has ever proves these Scriptures wrong by other Scriptures, why would I want to debate someone who would avoid these questions like the plague and just go in a thousand other directions trying to prove the unprovable?
Send these question of mine regarding the trinity to your scholarly friends and let them give me a brief explanation of each without going into HUNDREDS of unrelated Scriptures regarding God's spirit.
Sincerely,
Ray
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Hey, I just read your article that purports to "refute" the trinity. Lol! I saw no refutation. What I did see was a demonstration of an abysmal ignorance of Greek, and a rehash of the old polemic of the fourth century Arian cult, and modern day Jehovah's Witness's.
My friend, this stuff was refuted over 1500 years ago! You need to get with the program. I will briefly address some of your erroneous assertions.
You said that God is never referred to as "substance"? How on earth do you answer Hebrews 1:3 where it calls Christ the "upostuseos"(SUBSTANCE) of God?
Additionally, how do you address Philipians 2:5-7 where it calls Christ the "Morphe tou theou" (NATURE OF GOD)?
Furthermore, you said that Christ was not the originator of all? Lol! Man, don't you believe the Bible? Colosians 1:15-16 refers to Christ as the "firstborn" (PROTOTOKOS)=originator/source of ALL God's creation. John 1:1, Heb 1, and Col 1 tell us that christ made ALL things. Don't insert the brackets and the word "other things" like the erroneous JW's try to do.That is not in the text.
Also, you said that christ was "not the supreme deity"? How many deities are there? 1Cor 8:4 tells us that there is only ONE deity. It's true that there are things that are called gods, but that does not make them deity. There is only one deity (1Cor 8:4), and Christ is called that deity in John 1:1 "Kai Theos en ho logos"=God was the Word.
Your definition of THEOS was incorrect. I refer you to "Strongs Concordance"# 3588 where it defines THEOS (qeovB) as DEITY. Corroborate this with Col 2:9 where St.Paul states: "In christ dwelleth all the FULLNESS (pleroma) of the GODHEAD (THEOTETOS)=DEITY in somatikos (bodily) form. Christ was God incarnate. Theotetos in Greek means Deity.See "Thayer's Greek Lexican. "There is no way out of this.
Furthermore, you said that 1Corinthians 7:6 states that "there is one God the Father". That's true it does. You were implying that christ cannot be God because it speaks as the one God being the Father. That is nonsense. The same verse states (which you didn't quote), "and one Lord Jesus Christ". Does this mean that the Father is not the Lord because the Son is? Of course not. In fact YHWH means Lord in the Old Testament.
Finally, you said that christ never claimed to be God? Wow! Don't you believe the bible man? In John 8:58, Jesus said: "Before Abraham sprang into existence, I AM" (EGOEIMI)=I AM God. Check it in Greek, from a reliable lexical source, not some English dictionary.
I would like it if you would post this letter on your site, with a response. Thanks.
[Ray Replies]
You suggest that Heb. 1:3 says that Jesus is the "substance" of God. I am not sure how you are using that word. Substance can mean both the "essence" of something or the "material" part of something. Jesus Christ had a physical body and could be seen, whereas God does not have a physical body (God is SPIRIT) and God cannot be seen as He is INVISIBLE. It is interesting to note that the KJV translates this word "[h]upo'stasis" into 'substance' but one time in Scripture and that is not in Heb. 1:3, but in Heb. 11:1, Now faith IS the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen." Now that translation should receive some sort of prize for one the WORST possible translations in all Scripture.
Paul said we are to live by FAITH and not SIGHT [or perception]. What is "substance and evidence" but things that can be seen, weighed and perceived? And things that can be SEEN AND HANDLED (as
in "substance") don't require faith in the first place. Faith is was is required when there IS NOT SUBSTANCE OR EVIDENCE! An infidel can believe in things he can see and handle! Faith is the "assumption" or "confidence" or "assurance" ASIDE from any substance or evidence!
Possibly the Greek "[h]upo'stasis" can be used to mean substance, however, not in any Scripture that I am aware of. And the same is true with Heb. 1:3. Jesus does not "consist" of the "substance" of God Who is invisible, but rather Jesus is the VISIBLE IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD. God does not bear this visible substance which can be seen, therefore He send His Son in a VISIBLE form that can be seen (and heard).
This same Greek word is found in other Scriptures, but it is NEVER translated "substance." Notice for example, II Cor. 9:4, and 11:17, Heb. 3:14. If the Father were to take to Himself a Form or a Substance then what we would see is CHRIST. Christ IS the express image, form, (or substance if you insist) of God His Father. However, the difference is that when Christ takes on all of the Father's form, image, character, etc., etc., we can see and hear and touch Him with our hands, but we still cannot see, hear or touch our Heavenly Father with our physical hands. Jesus said that when we SEE Him we SEE the Father even though the Father is INVISIBLE! Granted, this is a little higher than theology 101.
You state, "Man, don't you believe the Bible? Colosians 1:15-16 refers to Christ as the 'firstborn' (PROTOTOKOS)=originator/source of ALL God's creation." Do you really think I never read that Scripture or don't believe it?
But notice how you answer this question in your own statement: "Christ...the source of all GOD's creation." There it is "God's" creation. There is always that ONE before and above Christ--God, His Father and His God! It took REAL POWER to create the universe didn't it? Where do you suppose Christ got that power? Man, don't you believe the Bible? (Just kidding).
Now seriously, Mat. 2818, "ALL POWER is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth." There it is again, my friend. The FATHER is always in charge. And again, I Cor. 15:27-28,
"For He [the Father] hath put all things under His [Christ's] feet. But when He [the Father] saith, all things are put under Him [Christ] it is MANIFEST THAT HE [GOD THE FATHER] IS EXCEPTED, which did put all things under Him."
And not verse 28:
"And when all things shall be subdued unto Him [Christ], then shall the Son ALSO HIMSELF BE SUBJECT unto HIM [HIS GOD AND FATHER] that PUT all things under Him, that God may be all in all."
No trinity here, my friend. In fact the Holy Spirit is not even mentioned in these most bold declaration of God through Paul.
Rather than say "Christ is not the supreme deity" let me restate it so that you can hopefully and clearly see the concept that I am presenting. Paul tells us that God is a "family" in Ephesians. Jesus Christ is not the HEAD of that family of God, but rather the FATHER is the head and just as I quoted to you from the Scriptures in I Cor. 15, Jesus Christ will always be SUBJECT TO THE FATHER and no the other way around. Cannot you agree with that statement in Verse 28, "...then shall the SON also Himself be SUBJECT unto HIM [THE FATHER]...? And let me just say that that word for subject in this verse is the same word used in Luke 10:20, "Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits ARE SUBJECT unto you..." Since the spirits are "subject" to the apostles, how could we ever contend that they are EQUAL as in a "trinity?"
As far as Christ going around claiming He was God, He did not, however, I will concede that He did say before Abraham was "I AM." Even when Pilate asked directly whether or not He was the Son of God, Christ refused to answer Pilate directly. If you noticed I made the statement at least twice in my paper, "Jesus IS GOD" "Christ is God."
Gotta run. Till next time. . .
Condensed from article by L Ray Smith
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Tekton Apologetics : Its interesting to note that a review of this article agrees with many points he raised but continue to criticize his article and stand using play of words, unscriptural language and just alot of jargon that sounds like theology but is in fact mumbo jumbo
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